So I stumbled onto this NPR article last week about the new FDA guidelines on organic and free range egg farms. In a nutshell {or eggshell, rather}, the FDA wants free range and organic farmers to limit their chicken’s outdoor time in order to avoid salmonella. Because free-ranging chickens encounter more wild animal feces than the caged variety, the FDA wants farmers to limit their outdoor access when birds are migrating, to build fences that keeps out cats and other animals, and set traps/bait to control mice and voles.
Some farmers feel that the guidelines defeat the whole purpose of free-range chickens and argue that a hen in its natural environment is less likely to get sick anyway. Larger farms, like Organic Valley say that it’s just a guideline and not really enforceable yet.
I don’t know about you, but I have never been so glad to have my own flock. I’ve never really worried about them pecking and foraging, and I have NEVER had any issue with salmonella. I guess I have always taken the healthy, happy chicken = healthy egg approach.
The article has got me thinking about mass food production–and you know what that means? I have to share it with you. Do you think their should be guidelines? Have you ever gotten salmonella from your flock–or even worried about it for that matter?
~Mavis
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Jill Frank says
Makes me glad I now have my own flock as well. I understand the government is suppose to protect the people, but sometimes I think they start regulating things for job security. 🙁 I haven’t heard of salmonella problems among any of my chicken raising friends…
Linda says
I have raised chickens for almost 60 years and never have I heard of anything so ridiculous. Maybe they need to look at the ones in the cages. Seems like to me they would be more apt to catch something. What’s next…..don’t let your cows walk in the grass.
Chris Pirrman says
IT’s not job security….it’s greed and corruption. They do this to help their crony’s and their own pockets by regulating any competition out of business or making them illegal. Monsanto, Dupont and big pharm have the politcians in their pockets. Why do you think it’s OK for cattle to stand on concrete amid their feces and eat nothing but corn? It can’t be healthy. The food industry is rife with harmful practices and ingredients to the animals and us. In some places, it’s illegal to grow your wn food. They’ve almost won with our healthcare, they’ll control our food soon and then we’re doomed.
Kristina Z says
My chickens are penned for this very reason. Also, since I make my living as an almond and walnut grower, I don’t want to take the chance of chicken manure in our orchards ending up on our final product and causing a health problem for consumers. Things like salmonella outbreaks in fresh produce send the public into a tizzy, and can have lasting effects on the producers of the crop(s) affected, regardless of how or where the contamination occurred. Something the ag community always struggles with, PR-wise, is trying to get the public to really understand that their food is produced outside. In the dirt. Possibly near domestic animals and certainly in proximity to wild animals and birds. I am not being facetious here. People really don’t seem to deep-down understand that — they say they want all chickens outside in the fresh air, but wait and listen to the hue and cry if they catch salmonella from the eggs. It’s very frustrating that with the safest food supply in the world, consumers in the US demand 100 percent safety, which will never ever happen unless we stop growing food outside, which of course is a ludicrous proposition. (Sorry for the rant, but it just feels like we’re banging our heads against the wall sometimes.)
Ellen says
I can totally sympathize but do you then try and keep all birds and rodents out of your orchards?
Kristina Z says
Boy that would be fun to try! No, but there was serious talk for awhile of FDA requiring us to fence our orchards and apply bird netting. No joke. Luckily, that seems to have been deleted from the proposed Food Safety Modernization Act, though the act as written does stipulate that we shouldn’t harvest our crop if it looks like there have been animals in our field (Ha!). We got into farming to get away from the bureaucracy of academia, but it seems to have followed us here…..
Ellen says
Wow. All that plus you have to worry about enough bees to pollenate your crop!!
Okay here is another question. Do you sell real organic raw almonds directly to buyers or do you sell to other companies for retail sale? I don’t get the FDA here as far as the almonds go – if they are all required to be fumigated or flash pasteurized (even those that are then called raw), wouldn’t both those processes kill any salmonella?!
I am sorry for all the regs, I do know they are weighing heavily on small farmers in WA as well. I’m afraid they will close up and quit.
LY says
Glad to have my own flock also. In the 10 years that we’ve had chickens, we’ve never had a problem.
We ‘free range’ only in our ‘chicken day care tractor’ because we have so many predators, so we have less exposure than some.
I would like to suggest that the FDA (Michael Taylor) spends more of its time and efforts on labeling for GMO foods, and transparency about what goes on in factory farms and leave the chickens alone, unless or until there really is a problem.
Sounds like busywork to me.
Rhonda says
Agreed! The FDA needs to label ALL GMO foods in every state!
I had a small flock of 5 Rhode Island reds in the early 80s. We had a three sided coop up on stilts so that the chickens had plenty of fresh air and ventilation. Every morning when the sun came up they walked down their very narrow ladder (Too narrow for predators to climb), and foraged all day. We had 7 acres so we didn’t have to buy them feed except in the winter time. Then as soon as the sun began to set, they would slowly make their way back to the coop. They were very healthy and were never sick, and we had wonderful big brown fresh eggs!
Too much Government!
Cindy says
We have a small flock of free ranged hens. We sell a few dozen extra eggs to some of our neighbors. When we sent out an email through the neighborhood about it, I was asked if they were real like the ones in the store. This is an intelligent grownup asking me! People just don’t know what it takes to get their food, and where it comes from. We have never gotten salmonella from our eggs and have had chickens for about 6 years.
crlzmmr says
What would happen if someone you sell eggs to was to get salmonella ?
Would they be able to sue your socks off ?
( Or do you have some insurance to protect against this possibility ? )
Even if I could get something to grow,
I don’t think I would have the courage to sell / barter produce or eggs
( not with America being such a litigious country now days )
Just lately I was doing a eggshell mosaic artwork thing ( a website expressed interest in my sample )
but I decided against going ahead with the idea.
I figured it would be just my luck some “intelligent grownup” would lick the eggshells
and I would get sued if they got sick.
crlzmmr says
I don’t know why I said, “intelligent grownup” .
The sentence would have made more sense if I said, “someone”.
IC says
If you think along those lines then you have to wonder – what if someone gets sick if you bake a cake to share on a birthday? What if someone gets sick after coming to your home for dinner?
crlzmmr says
This is true. People have to be careful now days over everything.
I’m lucky though. I don’t cook. I live on “filler food” ( junk food, GMOs etc. )
But I do like looking at the pictures Mavis posts of the things she makes.
If I ate healthy, (and if I could cook), some of the pictures look like they might be tasty.
For awhile I was actually thinking of trying to make some of her delicious-looking jams
Before I bought the supplies, luckily I came to my senses and realized I don’t eat jam.
( And I couldn’t make the jam for gifts because the recipient might get sick )
carol says
For Pete’s sakes! This seems to be a loud echo of the message in the movie, “Food, Inc.” I can appreciate Kristina’s dilemma, being an almond grower, but it sounds like her chickens are penned. This is different than limiting outside time. I just can’t help but wonder if there has been some manipulative lobbying going on? Wish I had room on my small piece of property for a flock. For now, I will continue to buy eggs from a friend who has chickens. Mavis, if I lived in your neighborhoon, I’d trade with you. Looks like you could use some help with watering. 🙂
Judy says
don’t get me started! …. to late! Can’t contain this..I have raised organic free range chickens for 30 plus years.. NEVER EVER had a problem with any salmonella or any other disease issues.. never even had a sick chicken..there’s more food poisoning from market now then ever in this country! FDA is a joke!…I just recently read a report about chicken and the fact that there’s arsenic being allowed by the FDA.. it’s in the commercial feeds and its in all of them and its a cancer causing agent..FDA stated when questioned..” that a certain amount in the feed is harmless to humans” they say that majority of this is excreted by the birds! So that makes it okay.. now first there’s no magic number on how much is “safe”. . and get this.. the chicken manure from mass production is sold to the beef farmers as a feed supplement.. I have seen this stuff personally being loaded onto semi trucks from the chicken houses in my neighborhood… right after the chickens are hauled off to the processing plant… Mavis you are right.. happy healthy chickens, free range is the best choice… if I can locate this article I will send the link to you.. oh and one more thing before I get off my soap box. think about this.. more people are eating chicken instead of beef.. goal is cut back heart disease.. but that means more cancer from the chicken… doesn’t it??
Ellen says
I read an old text from the 40s about raising chickens. Even then they knew arsenic would promote growth. What really scares me is that their manure is then sold as compost.
Anne-Marie Bilella says
Personally I have never encountered salmonella with my chickens or known anyone else to have issues. All contamination problems seem to occur in the FDA regulated factories and mass produced farmed animals and produce. I use composted chicken poop on my veggies and flowers. That new regulation is right up there with the free range – vegetarian chickens(not possible if they are truly free range) 😀
Just my two cents.
Terri Porado says
I think this is ridiculous! Read Joel Salatin’s “Folks, This Ain’t Normal”. A very wise man. The government is killing us all slowly. I buy my eggs from local farmers. If We end up getting a bigger piece of property, Im going to have chickens. And maybe a cow. And a pig. And a goat. :)))
Lydia says
I’ve found a few different looking “piles” around our property–and not from our pooch, but even our free-ranging girls have never caused any salmonella outbreaks (or anything else) in our family or others we’ve shared our eggs with. Yes, the scale of egg production is much larger on a national basis, but I can’t imagine a healthy environment in those huge conglomerate farms!! The conditions in most cases are deplorable!! This possible FDA restriction sounds like the mass market egg producers have ramped up their lobbying in DC. 🙁
Janis says
In Will County Illinois they want to implement a $640.00 yearly permit fee to keep chickens. They county thinks it will show a person “has the means” to keep chickens.
Mavis Butterfield says
Whole. Lee. Cow!
Connie says
I just read this with interest in that we just recently started our flock and I have been more and more paranoid in the last several years about food borne illness since I now have children. I know lots of other families that raise chickens and have never had issues and I don’t trust the FDA one little bit. They are not in business for the consumer. My chickens are penned because we have way too many predators where I live in Colorado, but I wonder what people do to minimize the risk? Wash the eggs? My girls aren’t laying yet but my neighbors are already asking about any surplus eggs we might get and I am afraid in our litigious society about what would happen if someone were to get sick. But as far as the FDA regulations, that’s the biggest bunch of bull I’ve ever heard. The diseases that run rampant through commercial egg production plants have to be so much worse than anything that could happen in a free range flock. Not to mention the deplorable conditions.
Erin says
But the FDA can’t go after the big companies (i.e. Tyson), so they go after the little guys instead. Makes me sick!
Jlhinds says
To answer your question… Yes, you can wash your eggs (when you get some) but unless they are very dirty you don’t need to. And actually if you do wash them you could be introducing/exposing the eggs to bacteria. Egg shells naturally have a thing called”bloom” which like an antibacterial coating that protects them from bacteria getting in the eggs. If you wash them, it removes this coating. Also, shells are porous (to let in air) when you wash them you can chance harmful bacteria getting in the eggs. Unless the eggs are very dirty, it is best not to wash them. (If you gather your eggs everyday and don’t let them build up, or lie on the floor they will stay very clean. If they do get dirty you can wash them with warm water, (do not use soap) or you can use a very fine piece of sand paper to “erase” any stains. There are also, natural and organic egg washing solutions on the market, if you find your eggs are getting very dirty. Hope this helps. Good luck with your little ladies. Once you eat your own eggs you will never buy store eggs again. 🙂
Robin in SoCal says
We’ve only had chickens for a year but after reading the following article in the Daily Mail Online.
I’ll take my chances with keeping girls in my own backyard. Our girls have a nice big area to roam and every few months we rotate their roaming area. This lets the grass recover and allows them some new foraging areas to explore. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2380308/250-000-hamburger-First-test-tube-grown-beef-served-London-restaurant-week.html
Lisa says
I don’t have chickens, but buy the free-range, cage-free kind. (I have read it isn’t any more humane though) What bothers me about those is the claim “all vegetarian diet,” since I KNOW chickens are not vegetarians! I have seem them tear apart a rat that got in their enclosure, and they are famous for eating bugs.
They might feed the chickens vegetarian feed, but the chickens will eat whatever they want!
I like to get my eggs from a 4-H boy nearby, but his cooler is usually empty when I drive by. He leaves it on the roadside and you just take the eggs and leave the money! Those yolks are so orange!
As for regulations and salmonella, I suppose there need to be guidelines for consumer products, IF, and only if, there have been problems. But, right now it’s just worry, nothing substantiated, that free-range chickens will cause an outbreak.
Yvonne says
I think the FDA recommendation to keep out cats and dogs is actually kind of hilarious since the British study referenced in the NPR article specifically states that the presence of cats and dogs on a farm is related to a LOWER risk of salmonella (duh–who do we think is going to kill the mice and voles that are the major source of salmonella contamination?). Same thing with other wildlife. I have a small flock of free-range hens in an unfenced 2-acre yard. We have a lot of coyotes and other wildlife very nearby, but they don’t come in our yard because of our dogs. In my mind, the FDA recommendations are at the very least useless and at the worst counterproductive. Of course, there are no guarantees of 100% safety, but the people who worry incessantly about contamination of their food supply tend to be the same people who have never been on a commercial livestock operation of any kind and have NO idea how their food is produced. My uncle used to own a commercial chicken farm and there wasn’t a single chicken among his thousands that didn’t have at least sores or missing feathers from pecking, so I’ll take eggs from my own beautiful and healthy hens any day over commercially produced eggs. Note that actual FDA regulations currently in place apply to farms with over 3000 chickens! Now, there is something wrong with the very idea of housing 3000 chickens in one place unless you have acres and acres of pasture. And by the way, I actually have had salmonella poisoning before–from a McDonald’s!
Jlhinds says
I have been raising chickens for 5 years now and we have never had any problems with salmonella or have heard of any small producers having problems. Most small producers raise either heritage or non commercial breeds of chickens. Unlike commercial breeds, they have not had any genetic altering so they’re naturally more resistant to diseases and the health problems of commercial breeds. They are not over crowded and are kept in clean, healthy living conditions so they do not get sick, and the eggs do not get contaminated. Commercial chickens have been genetically modified to grow fast and big, this puts a strain on their bodies, weakens their immune systems and creates heath problems. Add to that, unclean, over crowded, an unnatural living conditions and it creates a big mess. The chickens have no natural instincts or ability to fight off infections, so in addition to giving them growth hormones and chemical laden feeds, the growers have to give them antibiotics to keep the chickens “healthy”. It is the same situation with all commercial poultry and meats. It is terrible what has been done to these poor animals, which in turn causes health problems for us. And don’t even get me started on GMO vegetables and fruits! We need to take back control of our nations’ food chain/supply.
Lacia Lynne Bailey says
Are there any studies they cite showing that free range eggs have higher incidence of salmonella? Are there any GOOD studies that take into consideration the quality of free range, feed, over all real health?
Sherri says
There aren’t any real good studies to show what they are proposing will do any good. This is the FDA going hard against organic producers… again. They need to be focusing on something that is a more pressing issue like arsenic in chicken due to antibiotics! But that would mean going after Pfizer and that would be a lot harder than putting regulations on organic farms. Mavis, I’m so jealous! I wish I had my own chickens! If any of you are interested I made a petition for the President on We The People. If you have a minute to sign it to let them know we want caged free chickens it would be appreciated: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/keep-organic-chickens-cage-free-and-treated-humanely-focus-arsenic-levels-chicken-give-antibiotics/cB3z7gs3 Thanks!